Wednesday, May 30, 2012

Talbain Vs. Demitri Analysis

Alright. I'm a bit late, but here's my first matchup analysis: Talbain vs. Demitri. I did this one first mainly because I've been playing it a HELL of a lot, lately. But, I also thought it was important to do right away because I think most American players in general play this match incorrectly (and I'm talking, any character vs. Demitri). Novice players have no idea how powerful Demon Cradle is, and they get rocked by it all day. Higher-level players are possibly TOO scared of Demon Cradle, and spend the entire match trying not to get hit by it. My new outlook is somewhere in the middle, and I just wanted to talk about it.


Matchup: Almost every tier list since the beginning of time lists this as 6-4 Talbain. I'm gonna call it 5-5.

Here's my reasoning: Talbain doesn't have a lot of great ways to bait a Demon Cradle. He has no fireball, he has no forward-momentum attacks where he can easily stop his momentum (like, say, almost anyone with an air dash), he has no long-range normals to punish Demon Cradles (yes, Beast Cannon is long-range; but it's not fast enough to hit a whiffed Jab DC on reaction), and his GC-baiting attack has to be one of the worst in the entire game, not to mention it's at a rather dangerous range to be at when fighting Demitri. He has some success with his jump mixups; but overall, Talbain is a rather easy target to hit with a Demon Cradle, which makes him work harder than most characters at avoiding them - and, consequently, avoiding disadvantageous situations.

On the other hand, since a large part of Talbain's game is converting his opponent's whiffs to big damage, and one of the primary ways of beating Demi with ANYONE is to make him whiff attacks, Talbain, too, gets a lot of opportunities for big damage that not only does Talbain not get against most other characters in high level play, but also opportunities for free damage that most people can't get against Demitri.

Basically, both of them can beat the everliving shit out of each other in stupid ways that they probably shouldn't be able to. Most tier lists have this as 6-4 Talbain, but in practice, Demitri controls the match in virtually every video of Japanese high-level play I've ever seen. I don't think I'm out of line calling this one 5-5.

Your Goal

Talbain wants to make Demi whiff a lot of Demon Cradles and sweeps. This way, he can counter with hard-hitting attacks; anything from stray S.Hps to well-placed ES BCs. Likewise, Talbain also wants Demitri to do a Batspin when he should do an Air Fireball, and vice versa. This will lead to easy damage and knockdowns.

Alternatively, your secondary goal is to do attacks that are difficult to Guard Cancel. This means doing dashes, very erratic block strings (moreso than usual), and any setup where the outcome can be several things (i.e jumping). These will allow you to deal damage without having to bait a Demon Cradle, as Demi will be forced to block more often. The more difficult you are to read, the more leeway you have to attack.

The most important thing to keep in mind when fighting Demitri is his Demon Cradle. You can't be scared of it! If you get hit by a Demon Cradle, so what? It does the damage of like...a medium punch. And yes, it knocks you down, but who cares? Demitri has to not only guess right to land next to you, but he has to THEN guess what your action is going to be. Instead, learn what situations you find yourself getting hit by it a lot, and figure out how to mitigate that.

...BUT! Fear the Demon Cradle in the corner. This is because he can force you to be right next to him. Since his ES Guard Cancel is unblockable, you are very unsafe if you attack right next to him. Never be right next to him! Don't attack in the corner until you can put some distance between you and him!


Demitri's Goal

Demitri's goal is to hit you with lots of Sweeps or DCs - whether through predicting your attacks or by way of Guard Cancels. This sets up virtually all of his damaging options. It also has the added effect of giving hesitation to his opponents, which allows him to get in some free jump-ins. Since Talbain has no 100% reliable way of anti-airing Demi, this has the potential to go really bad for him.

A secondary goal for Demi is to corner you. From there, he has about a million options: Throw, Bliss, any chain that will punish Talbain for trying to jump, any jump-in, or a buffered GC, (remember, Demitri's ES Guard Cancel is unblockable, which makes it a very bad idea to try and attack Demi when he's got you cornered. You have to counter him!).


Ideal Distance

In neutral situations, you want to be outside of Demitri's sweep range. This way...well, for one, you can't get swept, but for two, it's a great place to be if Demi tries most things. An air fireball OR a bat spin can be dangerous if predicted, you are close enough to counter any random DC, and you are too far away to try and AA Demi's jump-ins, which will force you to deal with them properly by either MOVING for AG'ing it.


When you have the offensive advantage, the best place to be is right inside of his sweep range - the max range of your jump attacks if you were to neutral jump. You are in a good position to bait and avoid a lot of sweeps, and you can also do many tricky jumping maneuvers to psych Demitri out. If you can get your Demi opponent into a catatonic state, you also have free reign to walk in and throw - not an easy thing for Demitri to deal with.



My various matchup notes: These are things I probably have summarized above; but there are also a lot of very specific tips under here. It may be slightly disorganized, but it's worth it to take a look.



- Do NOT let him jump in on you. Stay too far back for him to tick with Bliss, jump into his jump-in and chicken guard it, AG it, and as a last resort, try to anti-air it. But, never JUST block it!

- As an extension of the first point, NEVER be close enough for him to cross you up, ever.

- If you're going to get crossed up, just walk under him. You can walk under him and throw him, or walk under him and attempt to hit his landing with a chain combo (this is a bit risky). If you're CORNERED, you can walk under him and jump backwards, allowing you to come down on him with a jump-in combo (watch out for Demi players who know this trick - don't do it every time!).

- Chicken Guard is your buddy in this matchup. Meet on his descent (NOT is ascent or you will get thrown), and mix it into your own jump-ins.

- Concerning the "chicken guard Demi's jumps" tactic: Don't do it in the corner. If you're cornered, just AG or try and jump clean over him (risky - he can air throw you for free).

- From just out of the max range of your jump attacks, you can do a neutral jump to try and bait a DC.

- If your Demi opponent likes to dash a lot, feel free to throw in some "random" C.Lps.

- You absolutely have to respect Demi's dash, as he can either throw or DC you. It's true that jumping can theoretically handle both of these; however, you can be DC'd out of your prejump animation, and jumping is also a dangerous thing to do if you're cornered/near the corner. Hence, it's not safe to ALWAYS jump back. On the other hand, since jumping back has the potentially to stop Demi's dash mixup in its tracks, he would be equally crazy to always try it, so you're safe for the most part.

- Empty jump is pretty powerful in this match, as Demi players are going to want to hit you with Demon Cradle. On the flipside, S.Mk can beat a LOT of your attacks (and obviously, it will beat your empty jump), so you can't just jump at Demi with impunity.

- You have a lot of options against Bat Spin; if you anticipate one, you can neutral jump (hold back!!!) and swat him with an air attack. If you anticipate being close enough that he flies back at the end of it, you can block it and counter with an ES BC. If you suspect that Demi is going to land just in front of you/behind you, you can punish his landing frames.

- When you pressure with Air BCs, make sure you are far enough away that you can't be punished (because you will be punished against Demitri - trust).

- Dashing in against Demi is a powerful move; but, it's never more important to mix up your Dash/Jump/BCs/Wait against anyone else as it is against Demi, since Demon Cradle is not only an attactive option for Demi, but it's very high risk/high reward in this matchup. As an added bonus, mixing in neutral jumps from the ideal dash range is a very good move against Demi (good against everyone else - better on Demi).

- As an addendum, a really skilled Demi player will throw a S.Lp first in most situations where he expects a Dash, since it can beat the dash and without rendering him unable to defend against any of the other options.

- Beast Cannon wisdom: 6 9 7 9 1. Ending with 2 will frequently miss. If you just wanna land close to him, however, 2 is fine. In the corner, do 6 8 8 9 3; 6 9 will completely whiff Demi.

- Beast Cannon wisdom: Don't attempt BC strings against Demi, as he can easily Demon Cradle between directional changes. If you happen to get into a situation where he blocks a BC, try to either end it before he can DC you, or try and evade. For example, in the corner, you might get away with 6 8 before he attempts a DC. So, do 6 8 1 (DC whiffs) 3 \/ ES Climb Razor. If you're lucky enough to get up into the air before getting DC'd, don't stay above him!

- Don't fear the Demon Cradle too much; but, at the same time, you've gotta respect it, too. It is Demi's primary way of setting up his wakeup games, which is - incidentally - his main method of dealing damage. Don't be too scared that you never attack; but don't get angry and reckless, either.

- If you get knocked down, remember that Demi still has to figure out where you're going to roll afterwards to set up a perfect wakeup game. A good Demi player will stay on top of you either way; but, it's your job to make sure he lands right next you as infrequently as possible.

- How to punish Demon Cradles? First off, you can't really punish it on block, only on whiff. As for whiffs...Well, you can try and time an attack to connect as he lands, but this is very hard since Demi only has one landing frame. Instead, it's best to peg him with an attack in the middle of his whiffed Demon Cradle. Some players like to sweep; however, I find the reset much more attractive; since it's hard for Talbain to high/low an opponent who's getting up, they have a much better chance to successfully Guard Cancel whatever you try to do. A reset sets you up for all sorts of mixups, and your punish will do more damage than a sweep.

- If you manage to bait a whiffed Demon Cradle, you can punish with a full ES BC (I find it's easiest to punish with 6 8 6 8 6). However, if you hesitate for even a moment, you'll be hit.

- Seriously? Do NOT get cornered. You can escape the corner by getting yourself some breathing room and baiting a DC, walking under a jump, or even BC'ing under a jump.

- But seriously, DON'T GET CORNERED! You will get fucked up by his throw/bliss/DC/some-random-chain-to-stop-you-from-jumping mixup. I would dare say that if you're on your first life and Demi is on his second, it's worth it to take a ton of damage trying to roll out of the corner. It is no sweat at all for Demi to take a full life off of you if he's got you cornered.

- Remember, it's valuable to pressure Demi by walking forward. His best ways of stopping you will leave him completely vulnerable - DCs can be swatted, and sweeps can be jumped over, for you to punish him with just about anything.

- Your only reasonable GC-baiting attack is max-range C.Lp.

- It's not impossible to punish Demi's air fireballs; but, you have to KNOW he's gonna do it; if you go for a punish and Demi does a normal jumping attack on his descent, or does a Bat Spin, you are going to hate your life. The safest way to try and punish it is to SOMETIMES jump up, block it, and chicken guard with an Air BC. But be warned, even this can be punished rather easily.

- When Demi has no meter and you get knocked down, there's virtually no reason to ever do anything but hold down+back and prepare to tech hit. He has no overhead, and no guaranteed damage other than to chip with a Demon Cradle or do a normal throw. Anything but a normal throw will reset the situation, and you are in the clear anyways if you just tech hit. When Demi HAS meter, he can Bliss you for trying this, so THEN you have to be more careful.

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