Comboing into Moment Slice from a Dash - everything you need to know

Moment Slice is probably one of Talbain's best attacks. Moment Slice combos typically result in the highest Red Damage of any of Talbain's combos (Though ES BCs do more total damage), but the problem is that there aren't many setups for Moment Slice (where, on the other hand, you don't even need to set up an ES BC unless you're playing a very good player).

The typical Moment Slice setups all require crossups; thus, the more obvious setups are to actually set up the spacing for a crossup J.Lk, or to do the Moment Slice OS: after knocking an opponent down, do a neutral J.Lk from the distance where your opponent would be directly under you if they attempted a forward roll. When the J.Lk connects, land and do the Moment Slice combination, while tacking an Hp at the end of it. If you are on the right side, you will do (J.Lk \/ C.Lp -> C.Mp xx Moment Slice). If you landed on the wrong side, you will still get (J.Lk \/ C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp).

These setups are gimmicky and obvious, though. What you need is a good way to incorporate it in your normal mixups, instead of largely telegraphed, elaborate setups that anyone can see coming a mile away. Unfortunately, the only good way at that point is to combo it off the dash. Unfortunately, the difficulty and setups can differ greatly from character to character; some characters will be very easy to hit with any setup, while some characters can only be hit by a crossup. Some characters can't be hit by Moment Slice from a dash at all!

Hence, I've made this list which indicates all the information you might need about comboing into Moment Slice from a dash attack on any character. Per each character, I've listed whether it's possible (and if it's just really hard), whether they can be crossed up by a D.Lk (or if they can ONLY be hit by Moment Slice with a D.Lk crossup to begin with), and which common dash attacks (D.Lk; D.Mk) and dash links (D.Lk, D.Lp; D.Mk, D.Lp) can be used. I've also compiled a list of some of the most simple setups, which you might using to establish the threat of a dash already:

Pursuit: This indicates whether or not a successful pursuit attack will set up a D.Lk \/ C.Lp -> S.Mp xx Moment Slice.

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: This indicates whether or not the following chain will set up a D.Lk \/ C.Lp -> S.Mp xx Moment Slice from point blank or roughly point blank. This setup can be used with the D.Mk, D.Lk Dash Link.

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: This indicates whether or not the following chain will set up a D.Mk \/ C.Lp -> S.Mp xx Moment Slice from point blank or roughly point blank. Notice that this setup requires a D.Mk, not a D.Lk like all other setups do. This setup can be done with the D.Mk, D.Lk Dash Link, and they might even be required in this setup against Jedah and Rikuo.

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: This indicates whether or not the following chain will set up a D.Lk \/ C.Lp -> S.Mp xx Moment Slice from point blank or roughly point blank. This setup is typically used to set up a crossup D.Lk, and thus it's going to be assumed to cross up unless noted otherwise.


As a bonus, since Dashing into Moment Slice doesn't work on the whole cast, I've added the most damaging chain combo that knocks an opponent down. This can also be useful on an opponent who can be hit with a Dashing setup into Moment Slice, as you won't always have meter. The three typical combos are:

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> S.Mk -> C.Hk
C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk
C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk

ONE FINAL, IMPORTANT NOTE: THESE SETUPS ALL ASSUME THAT YOUR OPPONENT IS CROUCHING. THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT ALL OF THESE SETUPS WILL WORK AGAINST A STANDING OPPONENT. Then again, why are you doing a dash if you think your opponent is going to be standing? And, of course, you can still land Moment Slice in other ways; this list is ONLY about comboing into Moment Slice off of a Dash attack.

Without furhter ado, here's the master "Dashing Damage" list:


1. DEMITRI

Possible: Yes

Crossup: Yes - unlikely

Single Hit? Yes, both

Dash Link? Yes, both

Setups:

Pursuit: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: Demitri might be the easiest person in the game to hit with this combo. Who knows why? Maybe cos he's just so damn fat when he's crouched. Either way, all setups work on him relatively easy, and - although I wouldn't go out of my way to set it up - you can even cross him up. The only real downside is that the Meterless Knockdown combo is the least damaging of any variant. ...Who cares? You can Moment Slice the shit out of Demi.



2. VICTOR

Possible: Yes (moderate)

Crossup: No

Single Hit? Yes

Dash Link? Yes

Setups:

Pursuit: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes (does not crossup)

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: Victor is a little difficult to hit with Moment Slice, but every setup works. If you are rockin' out against your opponent, I'd give it a shot; but, I wouldn't go out of my way to set it up.


3. ANAKARIS

Possible: Crossup only (difficult)

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup

Dash Link? No

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk


Thoughts: Completely impossible, except in the unlikely event of a crossup. I would have never guessed, since Anak seems to get the shaft in virtually every regard. However, the Meterless Knockdown combo is the strongest possible variant, and you'll have to go out of your way to make it miss. That's good, right?



4. FELICIA

Possible: Crossup only (difficult)

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup

Dash Link? No; in addition, D.Mk, D.Lk is impossible against Felicia

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: Screw you, Felicia. I figured that testing this might help me find an edge in some of Talbain's harder matches, but you can only land this from a Dashing crossup and the timing is extremely tight. On top of that, you can only use the weakest possible Meterless Knockdown variant. Blah.



5. B.B HOOD

Possible: Yes - only by crossup or corner (corner is difficult)

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk (crossup or corner)

Dash Link? No; Dash Links are impossible against B.B Hood

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk


Thoughts: I would virtually never go for this in the corner. It's very random, and your success seems to be dictated by your spacing - you can't just be right on top of her when you go for it, and the exact range appears to be so pixel-precise that I couldn't even figure it out...either that, or it depends heavily on factors like how late you hit D.Lk before landing, and how fast you cancel S.Mp into Moment Slice. But, if your timing has to be that tight, why risk it? Besides, crossing her up is stupidly easy anyways, and that's very hard to mess up.



6. BISHAMON

Possible: Corner only (difficult)

Crossup: No

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk

Dash Link? Yes, D.Lk, D.Lp; I could not get D.Mk, D.Lp to work even once

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: No

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: I really thought this was gonna be different. You can land a Dashing Moment Slice off a D.Lp or the D.Lp, D.Lk Dash Link. Either way, it's pretty hard.



7. JEDAH

Possible: Yes (moderate)

Crossup: Yes (difficult)

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk

Dash Link? Yes

Setups:

Pursuit: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Lk -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: Well, it's not easy, but you can hit him with the combo in midscreen, the corner, and even by crossup. As for his Meterless Knockdown variant, the spacing is a little tight. If you're not landing your Dash attack off of one of the recommended setups, you might just opt for C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk anyways.



8. Q-BEE

Possible: No; Moment Slice does not hit Q-Bee when she's crouching.

Cross-Up: No; crossup is possible and easy to do, but Moment Slice still does not connect.

Single Hit? No

Dash Link? No

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: No

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk


Thoughts: This didn't exactly take a long time to test. I already knew that Moment Slice was useless against Q-Bee because she can just crouch under it. The only valuable thing to take away is that you can do the most powerful Meterless Knockdown variant on Q-Bee, and since her defense is very low, it does a whopping 29% of her lifebar before damage scaling. Suck it, Q-Bee!

Also, this might be slightly out of the scope of this article, but if you are really looking to do damage to Q-Bee off a dash, you can use the old D.(something) \/ S.M(p) xx ES BC combo (in other words, replace the optimal S.Mk which will whiff Q-Bee, with S.Mp which will not). The full combo with pursuit will do exactly 50%. But, we are not looking at combos that deal with ES Beast Cannon right now. Moving along.



9. HSIEN-KO

Possible: Yes (difficult; corner impossible)

Crossup: Yes (difficult)

Single Hit? Yes

Dash Link? No; in addition, D.Mk, D.Lk is impossible against Hsien-Ko

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk


Thoughts: I don't even know, dude. I know for a fact that you can land this combo on Hsien because when I began the tests, I landed the full combo on my very first try. However, absolutely none of the common setups work, I can't seem to hit her with it at all in the corner, and it's difficult to cross her up. Oh well - this fight is like a total blowout, anyways; having this on top of all of Talbain's other advantages would be ridiculous. Meterless Knockdown combo is as good as it gets though, so at least that's something.



10. J. TALBAIN

Possible: Crossup only

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup

Dash Link? No; Dash Links are impossible against Talbain

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk


Thoughts: Normally, all of Talbain's bullshit works very effectively against himself. Here...well, it's not perfect, but landing the crossup combo is very easy, and the setup works nicely. Meterless Knockdown combo is the most damaging possible variant.



11. LILITH

Possible: Yes; much easier with crossup or corner

Single Hit? Yes

Dash Link? No; Dash Links are impossible against Lilith

Setups:

Pursuit: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: ...So. It's definitely possible midscreen, and all the variations that are set up by a single D.Lk will work. But, they are honestly very hard, for the most part. Thankfully, crossing her up is very easy, allowing for an easy Moment Slice. Also, for whatever reason, landing the combo against her when she's cornered is much easier. I would have guessed this would be the case against most of the cast; however, Lilith is one of the last characters I tested, and this was the first time I ran into this phenomenon.

TL;DR: Do it when you've crossed her up or when she's cornered. Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant, but Lilith dies so fast it probably doesn't matter.



12. RIKUO

Possible: Yes (difficult; corner impossible)

Crossup: Yes (difficult)

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup

Dash Link? Yes, D.Mk, D.Lk

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: I don't think it's worth it to try your luck against Rikuo. The only setups that work are the crossup, which is very, very hard to do against Rikuo; and the setup for Talbain's Dash Link, which aside from having the highest possible margin of error already, will whiff Rikuo unless you step just a hair forward before doing the dash. And, honestly, in that hair of a second, your opponent could very well do anything but sit there and wait to get hit by your dash. Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant.



13. L. RAPTER

Possible: Yes

Crossup: Yes (difficult)

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup

Dash Link? Yes, D.Lk, D.Lp; in addition, D.Mk, D.Lk is impossible against Rapter

Setups:

Pursuit: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: Holy shit. Everything about this test has defied my expectations. As it turns out, Rapter might be one of the easiest characters to land this combo against. The only thing that's difficult is hitting him with a crossup - ironically, the only thing I expected might be feasible. It's possible to get him in the corner with either a single D.Lk or the D.Lk, D.Lp Dash Link; however, the Dash Link requires very accurate spacing and is easy to mess up. Since it's virtually impossible to miss otherwise, I'd say forego the Dash Link. Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant...but who fuggin' cares? You can hit Rapter with a Dashing Moment Slice combo!



14. SASQUATCH

Possible: Crossup only (difficult)

Single Hit? Yes, D.Lk crossup

Dash Link? No; in addition, D.Mk, D.Lk is impossible against Sasquatch

Setups:

Pursuit: No

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: What. A. Dick. The only way you're ever gonna land this against Sas is if you cross him up, which is super-hard to combo into. To add insult to injury, your Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant.



15. MORRIGAN

Possible: Yes (...kind of difficult?)

Crossup: Yes (difficult)

Single Hit? Yes

Dash Link? No; Dash Links are impossible against Morrigan

Setups:

Pursuit: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Lk -> C.Mp -> C.Mk: Yes

C.Lp -> C.Mp -> C.Mk -> S.Hp: No

C.Lp -> C.Mp/Mk: Yes

Meterless Knockdown: C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk


Thoughts: I dunno...it's like, hitting her with this combo is not as easy as possible, like it is against Demi or Rapter. But, on the other hand, it's not mind-bendingly difficult, like Hsien-Ko or Rikuo. It's easy enough that even though there's a margin of error, I'd still personally go for it. Meterless Knockdown combo is the weakest possible variant.

______________________

SIMPLER YES/NO LISTS

For the people who don't want to peruse the entire document, here are a lot of do/don't lists. I've made a lot of lists, depending on how people like to take in the information, so there's going to be a bit of redundancy.



The following characters can be hit with DMS (Dashing Moment Slice) combos, midscreen and corner, very easily:

Demitri
L. Rapter


The following characters are easier to hit in the corner:

Lilith (also easy with crossup)


The following characters are best to hit with a crossup:

B.B Hood
J. Talbain




The following characters can be hit with DMS combos with a slightly higher margin of error in the midscreen and corner:

Victor
Jedah
Morrigan



The following characters are very difficult to hit with DMS combos, yet it can be done midscreen:

Hsien-Ko
Rikuo


Corner only...and the corner combo is very difficult:

Bishamon


Crossup only...and the crossup is very difficult:

Anakaris
Felicia
Sasquatch


The following characters can not be hit by Moment Slice while crouching:

Q-Bee


I wouldn't try crossing these characters up with a DMS combo:

Demitri
Anakaris
Felicia
Jedah
Hsien-Ko
Rikuo
Rapter
Sasquatch
Morrigan
Victor (crossup impossible)
Bishamon (crossup impossible)
Q-Bee (because fuck you, Q-Bee)


I wouldn't try DMS combos in the corner against these characters:

B.B Hood
Bishamon
J.Talbain
Anakaris (corner impossible)
Felicia (corner impossible)
Hsien-Ko (corner impossible)
Rikuo (corner impossible)
Sasquatch (corner impossible)
Q-Bee (STFU)


Strangely enough, you shouldn't try DMS combos midscreen (not counting crossups) against these guys:

B.B Hood
Hsien-Ko
Lilith
Rikuo
Anakaris (impossible without crossup)
Felicia (impossible without crossup)
J.Talbain (impossible without crossup)
Sasquatch (impossible without crossup)
Bishamon (impossible except with corner)
Q-Bee (impossible except with hax)


Overall safe to try midscreen (not counting crossup):

Demi (easy)
Rapter (easy)
Morrigan (moderate)
Victor (moderate)
Jedah (moderate)


Overall safe to cross up:

B.B Hood (easy)
J. Talbain (easy)
Lilith (moderate)


Overall safe to hit in the corner:

Demi (easy)
Rapter (easy)
Lilith (easy)
Morrigan (moderate)
Victor (moderate)
Jedah (moderate)


Meterless Knockdown master list for C.Lp -> C.Hp -> C.Hk:

Anakaris
B.B Hood
Q-Bee
Hsien-Ko
J.Talbain


Meterless Knockdown master list for C.Lp -> C.Lk -> S.Mk -> C.Hk:

Jedah


Meterless Knockdown mastery list for C.Lp -> S.Mk -> C.Hk:

Demitri
Victor
Felicia
Bishamon
Lilith
Rikuo
Rapter
Sasquatch
Morrigan


Enjoy!

Talbain Vs. Demitri Analysis

Alright. I'm a bit late, but here's my first matchup analysis: Talbain vs. Demitri. I did this one first mainly because I've been playing it a HELL of a lot, lately. But, I also thought it was important to do right away because I think most American players in general play this match incorrectly (and I'm talking, any character vs. Demitri). Novice players have no idea how powerful Demon Cradle is, and they get rocked by it all day. Higher-level players are possibly TOO scared of Demon Cradle, and spend the entire match trying not to get hit by it. My new outlook is somewhere in the middle, and I just wanted to talk about it.


Matchup: Almost every tier list since the beginning of time lists this as 6-4 Talbain. I'm gonna call it 5-5.

Here's my reasoning: Talbain doesn't have a lot of great ways to bait a Demon Cradle. He has no fireball, he has no forward-momentum attacks where he can easily stop his momentum (like, say, almost anyone with an air dash), he has no long-range normals to punish Demon Cradles (yes, Beast Cannon is long-range; but it's not fast enough to hit a whiffed Jab DC on reaction), and his GC-baiting attack has to be one of the worst in the entire game, not to mention it's at a rather dangerous range to be at when fighting Demitri. He has some success with his jump mixups; but overall, Talbain is a rather easy target to hit with a Demon Cradle, which makes him work harder than most characters at avoiding them - and, consequently, avoiding disadvantageous situations.

On the other hand, since a large part of Talbain's game is converting his opponent's whiffs to big damage, and one of the primary ways of beating Demi with ANYONE is to make him whiff attacks, Talbain, too, gets a lot of opportunities for big damage that not only does Talbain not get against most other characters in high level play, but also opportunities for free damage that most people can't get against Demitri.

Basically, both of them can beat the everliving shit out of each other in stupid ways that they probably shouldn't be able to. Most tier lists have this as 6-4 Talbain, but in practice, Demitri controls the match in virtually every video of Japanese high-level play I've ever seen. I don't think I'm out of line calling this one 5-5.

Your Goal

Talbain wants to make Demi whiff a lot of Demon Cradles and sweeps. This way, he can counter with hard-hitting attacks; anything from stray S.Hps to well-placed ES BCs. Likewise, Talbain also wants Demitri to do a Batspin when he should do an Air Fireball, and vice versa. This will lead to easy damage and knockdowns.

Alternatively, your secondary goal is to do attacks that are difficult to Guard Cancel. This means doing dashes, very erratic block strings (moreso than usual), and any setup where the outcome can be several things (i.e jumping). These will allow you to deal damage without having to bait a Demon Cradle, as Demi will be forced to block more often. The more difficult you are to read, the more leeway you have to attack.

The most important thing to keep in mind when fighting Demitri is his Demon Cradle. You can't be scared of it! If you get hit by a Demon Cradle, so what? It does the damage of like...a medium punch. And yes, it knocks you down, but who cares? Demitri has to not only guess right to land next to you, but he has to THEN guess what your action is going to be. Instead, learn what situations you find yourself getting hit by it a lot, and figure out how to mitigate that.

...BUT! Fear the Demon Cradle in the corner. This is because he can force you to be right next to him. Since his ES Guard Cancel is unblockable, you are very unsafe if you attack right next to him. Never be right next to him! Don't attack in the corner until you can put some distance between you and him!


Demitri's Goal

Demitri's goal is to hit you with lots of Sweeps or DCs - whether through predicting your attacks or by way of Guard Cancels. This sets up virtually all of his damaging options. It also has the added effect of giving hesitation to his opponents, which allows him to get in some free jump-ins. Since Talbain has no 100% reliable way of anti-airing Demi, this has the potential to go really bad for him.

A secondary goal for Demi is to corner you. From there, he has about a million options: Throw, Bliss, any chain that will punish Talbain for trying to jump, any jump-in, or a buffered GC, (remember, Demitri's ES Guard Cancel is unblockable, which makes it a very bad idea to try and attack Demi when he's got you cornered. You have to counter him!).


Ideal Distance

In neutral situations, you want to be outside of Demitri's sweep range. This way...well, for one, you can't get swept, but for two, it's a great place to be if Demi tries most things. An air fireball OR a bat spin can be dangerous if predicted, you are close enough to counter any random DC, and you are too far away to try and AA Demi's jump-ins, which will force you to deal with them properly by either MOVING for AG'ing it.


When you have the offensive advantage, the best place to be is right inside of his sweep range - the max range of your jump attacks if you were to neutral jump. You are in a good position to bait and avoid a lot of sweeps, and you can also do many tricky jumping maneuvers to psych Demitri out. If you can get your Demi opponent into a catatonic state, you also have free reign to walk in and throw - not an easy thing for Demitri to deal with.



My various matchup notes: These are things I probably have summarized above; but there are also a lot of very specific tips under here. It may be slightly disorganized, but it's worth it to take a look.



- Do NOT let him jump in on you. Stay too far back for him to tick with Bliss, jump into his jump-in and chicken guard it, AG it, and as a last resort, try to anti-air it. But, never JUST block it!

- As an extension of the first point, NEVER be close enough for him to cross you up, ever.

- If you're going to get crossed up, just walk under him. You can walk under him and throw him, or walk under him and attempt to hit his landing with a chain combo (this is a bit risky). If you're CORNERED, you can walk under him and jump backwards, allowing you to come down on him with a jump-in combo (watch out for Demi players who know this trick - don't do it every time!).

- Chicken Guard is your buddy in this matchup. Meet on his descent (NOT is ascent or you will get thrown), and mix it into your own jump-ins.

- Concerning the "chicken guard Demi's jumps" tactic: Don't do it in the corner. If you're cornered, just AG or try and jump clean over him (risky - he can air throw you for free).

- From just out of the max range of your jump attacks, you can do a neutral jump to try and bait a DC.

- If your Demi opponent likes to dash a lot, feel free to throw in some "random" C.Lps.

- You absolutely have to respect Demi's dash, as he can either throw or DC you. It's true that jumping can theoretically handle both of these; however, you can be DC'd out of your prejump animation, and jumping is also a dangerous thing to do if you're cornered/near the corner. Hence, it's not safe to ALWAYS jump back. On the other hand, since jumping back has the potentially to stop Demi's dash mixup in its tracks, he would be equally crazy to always try it, so you're safe for the most part.

- Empty jump is pretty powerful in this match, as Demi players are going to want to hit you with Demon Cradle. On the flipside, S.Mk can beat a LOT of your attacks (and obviously, it will beat your empty jump), so you can't just jump at Demi with impunity.

- You have a lot of options against Bat Spin; if you anticipate one, you can neutral jump (hold back!!!) and swat him with an air attack. If you anticipate being close enough that he flies back at the end of it, you can block it and counter with an ES BC. If you suspect that Demi is going to land just in front of you/behind you, you can punish his landing frames.

- When you pressure with Air BCs, make sure you are far enough away that you can't be punished (because you will be punished against Demitri - trust).

- Dashing in against Demi is a powerful move; but, it's never more important to mix up your Dash/Jump/BCs/Wait against anyone else as it is against Demi, since Demon Cradle is not only an attactive option for Demi, but it's very high risk/high reward in this matchup. As an added bonus, mixing in neutral jumps from the ideal dash range is a very good move against Demi (good against everyone else - better on Demi).

- As an addendum, a really skilled Demi player will throw a S.Lp first in most situations where he expects a Dash, since it can beat the dash and without rendering him unable to defend against any of the other options.

- Beast Cannon wisdom: 6 9 7 9 1. Ending with 2 will frequently miss. If you just wanna land close to him, however, 2 is fine. In the corner, do 6 8 8 9 3; 6 9 will completely whiff Demi.

- Beast Cannon wisdom: Don't attempt BC strings against Demi, as he can easily Demon Cradle between directional changes. If you happen to get into a situation where he blocks a BC, try to either end it before he can DC you, or try and evade. For example, in the corner, you might get away with 6 8 before he attempts a DC. So, do 6 8 1 (DC whiffs) 3 \/ ES Climb Razor. If you're lucky enough to get up into the air before getting DC'd, don't stay above him!

- Don't fear the Demon Cradle too much; but, at the same time, you've gotta respect it, too. It is Demi's primary way of setting up his wakeup games, which is - incidentally - his main method of dealing damage. Don't be too scared that you never attack; but don't get angry and reckless, either.

- If you get knocked down, remember that Demi still has to figure out where you're going to roll afterwards to set up a perfect wakeup game. A good Demi player will stay on top of you either way; but, it's your job to make sure he lands right next you as infrequently as possible.

- How to punish Demon Cradles? First off, you can't really punish it on block, only on whiff. As for whiffs...Well, you can try and time an attack to connect as he lands, but this is very hard since Demi only has one landing frame. Instead, it's best to peg him with an attack in the middle of his whiffed Demon Cradle. Some players like to sweep; however, I find the reset much more attractive; since it's hard for Talbain to high/low an opponent who's getting up, they have a much better chance to successfully Guard Cancel whatever you try to do. A reset sets you up for all sorts of mixups, and your punish will do more damage than a sweep.

- If you manage to bait a whiffed Demon Cradle, you can punish with a full ES BC (I find it's easiest to punish with 6 8 6 8 6). However, if you hesitate for even a moment, you'll be hit.

- Seriously? Do NOT get cornered. You can escape the corner by getting yourself some breathing room and baiting a DC, walking under a jump, or even BC'ing under a jump.

- But seriously, DON'T GET CORNERED! You will get fucked up by his throw/bliss/DC/some-random-chain-to-stop-you-from-jumping mixup. I would dare say that if you're on your first life and Demi is on his second, it's worth it to take a ton of damage trying to roll out of the corner. It is no sweat at all for Demi to take a full life off of you if he's got you cornered.

- Remember, it's valuable to pressure Demi by walking forward. His best ways of stopping you will leave him completely vulnerable - DCs can be swatted, and sweeps can be jumped over, for you to punish him with just about anything.

- Your only reasonable GC-baiting attack is max-range C.Lp.

- It's not impossible to punish Demi's air fireballs; but, you have to KNOW he's gonna do it; if you go for a punish and Demi does a normal jumping attack on his descent, or does a Bat Spin, you are going to hate your life. The safest way to try and punish it is to SOMETIMES jump up, block it, and chicken guard with an Air BC. But be warned, even this can be punished rather easily.

- When Demi has no meter and you get knocked down, there's virtually no reason to ever do anything but hold down+back and prepare to tech hit. He has no overhead, and no guaranteed damage other than to chip with a Demon Cradle or do a normal throw. Anything but a normal throw will reset the situation, and you are in the clear anyways if you just tech hit. When Demi HAS meter, he can Bliss you for trying this, so THEN you have to be more careful.

What I would change.

I haven't been playing much lately, on the count of my controller being 'broken'; that is, it still works, but the left and right on the D-Pad are now extremely unresponsive. Rather than piss and moan about it (which I feel the compulsion to do a lot, every time I play), I'm just staying away from the game.

So, instead of my usual posts about Talbain theory, I want to discuss a hypothetical: What would I change about Talbain if VS was rebalanced?

Here's my very detailed thoughts on the matter. If you want to just read the change-list I'd implement, scroll down to the bottom:

A. General Ideas on Balancing:

I think my changes would be poorly received and controversial with the rest of the VS community, and for one reason: I would probably not nerf Talbain at all.


My reasoning is that Talbain only seems overpowered in lower level play. I think, as you reach the upper echelons of competitive Vampire Savior, it takes an awful lot of work to win with Talbain in most matches. Yes, there are definitely some matches where he completely dominates. Bishamon can't do much. Anakaris is as good as dead in many situations. Almost anything Morrigan can attempt against Talbain is unsafe unless she lands a knockdown.


However, my thoughts are that Talbain should not be nerfed for this, as it's very difficult to create opportunities for damage against good players. Lowering his power or taking away his methods for creating opportunities would just make Talbain awful. Instead, I would much sooner see characters who have intrinsically difficult problems to overcome against Talbain receive buffs - whether it be helpful across the board or mainly helpful against Talbain himself.

I'd rather see Talbain become more versatile. He has a lot of really powerful attacks that players want to use often, and a lot of attacks that players (rightfully) avoid like the plague. I wouldn't mind seeing these abilities get changed in a way that sees more use, or, in a worst-case scenario, remove it if there's no way to improve upon it. Thus, my changes for Talbain have moveset versatility in mind. Oh, and removing unblockables, which I disagree with on principle.


B. Normals

My goal here is to mainly change moves that need help or see infrequent use. Fortunately, Talbain's repertoire of normals is very good; there's almost no moves that I don't use. This list ultimately includes all three, plus one normal I already use that could use a boost.

1. Close S.Lk

- This move could be really good for Talbain. IF, we could control when we do it. Normal S.Lk is also a very powerful move that I don't think should be sacrificed. I would, in all likelihood, change this move from being a 'close' version to being a command normal, activated with B+Lp. Now Talbain has one more anti-air option to choose from that could honestly help him in a few situations.

Barring that, I would remove it from the game entirely.

2. S.Mp

- I honestly don't know what I'd do with this attack. Its only function at the moment is to bait Guard Cancels, and it's not even that good at it. I would probably reduce the cooldown of the move, while changing the hitstun and blockstun advantage accordingly, to make sure the move isn't used for anything else unexpected. As for the actual numbers? I think that would be hard for me to predict without being able to actually try it!

I might also shrink Talbain's hitbox for the move just a smidge, as the hitbox on his arm extends to almost the same length as the attack box. I have a hard time judging the priority of hitboxes in Vampire Savior, though; since I'm used to ST hitboxes, virtually every move in this game looks like it has extremely low priority, so hitbox editing is something I would experiment with very carefully.

3. S.Hk

- I don't even know, dude. My first thought that comes to mind is to revert this move to the animation of Talbain's old HKs in Vampire or Vampire Hunter. This would require a bit of thought, though, as the ramifications could be huge. I wonder if there would be any merit in changing this move to resemble just one of Talbain's three different hitboxes for the current iteration? All three of the kicks that make up S.Hk have different hitboxes as it stands. This would be one of the biggest challenges, in my opinion.

4. T+Mk

- I would grant this move the exact same startup frames as S.Mk. Why not? This move's only important function is to try and dissuade people from jumping out of your pressure string, and it's extremely slow for that purpose. Naturally, the hit and block advantage would need to be changed accordingly, but I don't think this is bad. This is one of the few things that Talbain lacks, and I don't think it makes him more interesting or adds to his specific flavor; it's just fucking obnoxious. Since you can't link anything afterwards, or even combo it into an attack, I think this would be a fair and just change.


C. Special Moves

1. Beast Cannon

First off, I would not make any changes to the normal Beast Cannon. I think its damage, range, movement, advantages, and disadvantages are right on point, and it's an integral part of Talbain's flavor.

More controversially, I probably would not change anything about the ES version, save for removing the unblockable situation. This move is the bane of a lot of people; however, I can tell you that against good players, I never get silly full-screen ramalamadingdong roflmao ES BCs. I only get to pull that kind of shit off on people who are seriously doing things they should NOT be doing, be it against Talbain or in general. And, against good players, each Beast Cannon landed is definitely earned. Thus, I don't feel like I would change anything.

If I were to change anything, I would possibly make the damage scale in such a way that if you landed the entire thing, the final hit would not do very much damage. This would cause the last hit to function mainly as a way of positioning yourself. Still, I doubt I would make this change. Talbain doesn't have a whole hell of a lot of options for closing in on his opponent; ES BC is his one and only means of keeping his opponents honest.

2. Climb Razor

My main concern with Climb Razor is that the normal version isn't good for attacking. I use Climb Razor to build meter in rare situations, but I feel like the main reason that Climb Razor exists is so that I can use ES Climb Razor.

The only problem is...what do you do with Climb Razor? It's an anti-air with shitty priority, preventing it from being effectively used as an anti-air I suppose you could buff the move, but that would be waaaay too strong, in my opinion. When you're talking about a character with some of the most powerful rushdown in the game, it begs the point, "Does he really need a bitchin' AA, too?" (As an aside, if I were to ever be in charge of rebalancing VS, you bet your ass I would remove Sas's Big Towers and Rapter's Death Voltage from the game.) One of the things that helps keep Talbain from being overpowered is that he has a hard time defending against aerial assaults. He has a lot of anti-airs, but they are only good in very specific situations, and it's up to the Talbain player to be able to quickly and intelligently judge which one to use at that time. He definitely doesn't need an anti-air that's ALWAYS a good idea. Forget it.

Another idea is to allow the normal versions of Climb Razor to juggle too, but reduce the damage of the normal versions. This seems kind of stupid, though; for one, you'd virtually always try it, whereas having to spend meter to attempt the juggle forces us to use some discretion. For two, this would be powerful unless we lowered the damage by a lot. And if we did that, what's the point? It would basically be like getting two Pursuit Attacks after landing an Air BC. Laaaaame.

My best idea is to change the motion of Climb Razor to DP+K. You'd still be able to do everything you did with it before, but it would be a lot easier to combo into when you're on the ground. The only thing preventing me from doing this more (besides the fact that missing this against a grounded opponent is very bad) is that comboing into Climb Razor is extremely awkward. In theory, it's probably one of the best things you can do, as it does more red damage than Beast Cannons, and the white damage isn't too shabby, either.

This also prevents a really ridiculous Option Select that you can set up on pads: if your button configuration has you pressing two or three kicks in a row when you AG, you can sweep the pad from "1" to "8" or "9" as you begin the AG. If you block the attack, you AG (obviously). If the first button of your AG lands as an attack, you'll get something like C.Lp XX Climb Razor.

In the end, changing the motion allows the normal version to be more useful, and prevents that ridiculous OS.


3. Million Flicker

Rebalancing the ES Version would be incredibly easy: reduce the duration so that it ends after six hits (instead of them being pushed out of the move after the 6th hit), and make the final attack knock down. If it turns out to be a powerful AA option, make sure the active hitboxes are lowered or shrunk.

The tougher challenge, here, is what to do with the normal version. It would be too beastly - no pun intended - to allow the normal version of Million Flicker to knockdown on hit. You could lower the cooldown on the move, making it possible to link normal attacks afterward. But, I'm already imagining horrendous shit like [C.Lp xx Million Flicker, C.Lp XX ES BC] , C.Lp xx Million Flicker, C.Lp XX Moment Slice), or even [C.Lp xx HP Million Flicker x N]. Without knowing how the engine is programmed, I'd be willing to be it'd be too much work to make it impossible to combo another special move afterward. I would not try to buff its anti-air properties for the same reason I wouldn't buff Climb Razor as an anti-air.

Thus...I'd probably just remove Million Flicker from the game. As it stands, there's no situation where Talbain would use Million Flicker instead of a different attack. He probably doesn't need ES Million Flicker to be such an extremely easy knockdown, and that's about the only way to make it effective. There's really nothing to be done with this attack that wouldn't make it too powerful. It seems to me like it can only be useless or broken...So, Million Flicker takes the walk.


D. EX Moves

1. Dragon Cannon

I *swear* this move is just a hair bit faster in Vampire Hunter 2. ...And, that's what I'd do with it. Allowing it to be a faster move helps twofold; Talbain could reasonably chain into it if he's closer to the edge of the screen, and this move might see a little more use outside of cheesing an opponent. On the flipside, characters who have a tough time jumping over it will be able to breathe a little easier, as the projectile would more quickly pass under them as they jumped. I like this idea.

2. Moment Slice

The only thing necessary to do with this move is extend the active hitbox all the way to the floor. That's right - fuck you, Q-Bee. If you're playing like an idiot, you've earned a Moment Slice, you smelly fuck.

3. Dark Force (Mirage Body)

Keeping in line with removing unblockables, the unblockable setup with Mirage Body would be removed.


E. Movement

1. Dash

Talbain's dash has GOT to change. I see the best Talbain players in the world fuck up execution on his dash attacks; it is simply too hard to use effectively. Thus, I would shorten the recovery frames Talbain has after landing, making it easier to transition from the dash into the ground combo.


F. Final Changelist

+ Close S.Lk changed to B+Lk.
+ S.Mp cooldown lowered; hit/block advantage changed to give the same advantage as before.
+ S.Hk reverted to old S.Hk from Vampire.
+ T+MK reduced by 4 frames; hit/block advantage changed to give the same advantage as before.
- ES Beast Cannon Unblockable removed from the game.
+ Climb Razor motion changed to DP+K.
+ Million Flicker removed from the game.
+/- Dragon Cannon trajectory speed increased slightly.
+ Moment Slice hitbox now reaches the ground.
- Mirage Body Unblockable removed from the game.
+ Dash landing frames decreased.

Testing my theory on matchups.

I've held an opinion on Vampire Savior matchups for a long time; specifically, that there are only four matchups for most characters: Vs. Anakaris, Vs. Demitri, Vs. Victor, and Vs. Everyone else. My reasoning for this is that your goal in a matchup against everyone else is the exact same. Each character has a sort of main goal for their offense: get them in the corner and IAD them to death, land DI/LI/Tenraiha/Big Brunch, run a Bubble Trap, and so on. No matter who you fight, the goal doesn't change; all that changes is how well an opponent can stop you from doing it.

Compare that to ST. Chun-Li, for example, has a different goal in many matchups. Against Ryu, she needs to RTSD before she gets Hadouken'd to death. Against Honda, you'll find yourself trying to counter his various attempts to close the gap. Against Zangief, your goal is specifically to push him back into the corner while keeping yourself from being cornered. Even though your ultimate goal on the offense is the same - Land MP throw with no meter, land super when you have meter - her goal changes from matchup to matchup, while in Vampire Savior, your matchup goal is virtually always your offensive goal.

Still, I feel like I'm finding that "there are no matchups" isn't as true as I originally thought. So, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. I will try and post my matchup thoughts on every match over the next several blogs - anything from my opinion on how easy/difficult it is, what I do to win, what I do to keep from dying, little tricks you can do, ideal spacing...the works. I'm gonna see what I think after I write them all up.

If you see me on GGPO, help me out! I don't play every matchup every day, all the time. My memory could always use a jog.

Kara BC and you.

Not much to say on this, except Talbain players don't do this nearly enough. Taken from Dustloop. New notes in italics.

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Talbain has the ability to cancel AND kara-cancel most of his air normals into Beast Cannon or ES Beast Cannon. There are a variety of useful implications for these, whether your opponent is meeting you mid-air or plans to deal with your offense from the ground. Let's start with air...

- When meeting an opponent in the air, Talbain's ability to cancel air attacks into BCs provides you with a useful tool to deal with people who Chicken Guard. For starters, you can cancel his medium attacks into BCs instead of canceling them into more mediums or hard attacks. This will slightly alter the usual timing between attacks, and even alter the spacing (since the BC startup will completely stop Talbain's forward momentum), making it an viable counter to people who chicken guard too frequently against Talbain - a phenomenon that gives many wolf players trouble. No matter what happens in this situation, there is some sort of benefit:

1. If the BC connects after a blocked attack, you get a knockdown off of an air-to-air instead of a reset. I don't think I need to explain why this rules. Moving on.

2. If the normal-to-be-canceled hits the opponent, your Air BC will put you back on the ground with wildly-altered timing, depending on your height relative to your opponent's. In most situations, this is actually SLOWER than just landing normally. However, the wide variety of different possible timings (even if it's slower than normal, different timings make it more difficult to mindlessly AG Talbain), and the possibility of landing behind your opponent at certain heights make this a powerful option. Also, each additional BC is that much more meter you have to play with!

3. If they successfully counter your attack with a chicken guard, you are going to be slightly farther away from your opponent than you would be if you had retained your forward momentum. Not exactly a game-changer, but not useless, either. (I suppose I should put in here, as a disclaimer, that you shouldn't just always get hit because "It's better to get countered when you do an Air BC." If you think your opponent is anticipating this, do something that will defy their expectations - simple as that.)

4. If they block your attack and don't go for the chicken guard, the Air BC will keep you close to your opponent. Also, the Air BC will usually reach the opponent after they hit the ground. Damn near anything they try apart from blocking will get beat, and in almost every situation, the Air BC will reach them quick enough to hit the opponent out of THEIR pre-jump frames, meaning they can't just jump out of it or land and try to chicken guard again. This doesn't come up often, but it's worth knowing.

*Bonus: If you're playing an extremely catatonic player, you can use kara-BC to build additional meter by jumping backwards and doing J.Mp, J.Mk xx BC. Hooray!

- A short blurb on chicken guarding with Air BC: It rocks. If you successfully block an air string, counter with Air BC for a free knockdown! This is also useful against people with long air chains to keep the offensive pressure on, or Air Dashers who like to attack from the farthest possible range (jump up, chicken guard the air dash from near the ground, counter with Air BC).

- Against grounded opponents, there's generally two ways to apply the cancel/kara-cancel BC:

1. If you know your opponent is going to attempt an AG, jump in, do something like J.Mk, and cancel it into an Air BC. This will keep them from immediately countering with something (unless they want to be rewarded with a knockdown), allowing you to stay in close even after being AG'd. The counter, of course, is that they could just anti-air you, or even worse, if they simply block both attacks, you won't land in time to block their counter-attack (i.e they get a free ground chain on you).

2. Using kara-BC, you have a pretty cool option select that can be useful against opponents with SRK-type attacks or other anti-air normals/specials. Though, in actual practice, it's not foolproof, it's still pretty damned useful:

As you're descending from your jump, press J.Mk and kara-cancel it into a BC. Preferably, you want to do the J.Mk from a distance where it'll whiff. What happens here is, if they jump at you, or try and counter you with a normal, you'll beat them with your J.Mk. If they try instead try an SRK, it will whiff and they will instead be hit by your BC.

Naturally, as I mentioned above, this isn't going to work out 100% of the time. If your opponent does a move that can beat your J.Mk, it won't magically win because you're doing a cool option select. Also, SRK attacks that move the opponent far enough forward will still beat this, so it's generally intended to beat Jab-SRKs/vertical Demon Cradles, slow anti-air normals (Anak's C.Hp, Jedah's C.Mk), and other anti-air specials (Jedah's Nero-Fatica, anti-air projectiles).


Start using this!

ES Beast Cannon patterns.

I wrote this information down for a few reasons:

1. I hear about people who don't play Talbain because they don't know the juggles/don't know how to juggle BCs.

2. I get asked frequently enough by people learning Talbain, 'what ES BC patterns do you use?'

3. I get really fucking sick of people saying that the best corner patter is 6/9 9 9 9 9. No it isn't!

Here's a post on this, taken from my compendium of random Talbain info on Dustloop. For the uninitiated, the numbers refer to what direction your BC is traveling; refer to the number pad on your keyboard. New additions in italics.

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1. The Zig Zag: 6 9 7 9 2, OR 6 7 9 7 2

This is the most basic variation; it leaves the opponent in roughly the same position on the play field (relative to where they got hit), and the downward finisher sets up Talbain for a pursuit attack or just a long time to set up his wakeup game. The second version is good for switching sides with your opponent.

- Against some characters, it's easier to connect the final hit with 1 instead of 2.


2. The Staircase: 6 8 6 8 6/3

This is another very important variation, as it will corner an opponent from almost anywhere on the playfield. It's advantage in positioning is huge; however, the trade-off is that you're left in an awkward position: the opponent is in the corner, but you are cornered. Thus, your options afterwards are limited to either a late pursuit (places Talbain on the opposite side), or to dash away from the wall. Despite that, I hope the advantages of being able to corner your opponent at any time underscores how important this variation is.

- Note that this variation can not be started from an ES Anti-Air BC (9).


3. Stairwell: 6 9 4 9 4/1, OR 6 7 6 7 6/2/3

There's no technically important reason to know this variation, other than that it's by far the easiest to land all the hits with. It's good to practice this variation for no other reason than if you panic or hit an ES BC unexpectedly (not because you threw it out randomly!), you can have this variation in your muscle memory to ensure the maximum amount of damage possible. The second version switches sides with the opponent.


4. Corner Variation: 6 8 9 9 3

Fuck 6 9 9 9 9. If you really want a good corner variation, this is the right one. Every direction change has a logical explanation:

- 6 is the first hit...logically.
- 8 is the second hit, because 6 9 will whiff against Demitri and Rapter.
- 9 is the third hit, because 6 8 8 (or 6 9 8) will whiff against Lilith...and only Lilith, that bitch
- 9 as the fourth hit is the only reliable way to set up a downward finisher against the majority of the cast (you can use 8 as a fourth against wide characters)
- 3 is the only downward finisher that will reliably connect against the entire cast as well (2 works against fatties)

Thus, this is the only corner variation with a downward finisher that works universally against the entire cast. Learn it, love it.

(Also, what the hell? Why does 6 8 8 hit Morrigan and not Lilith?) 


5. Guard Cancel: 9 1 8 4 8

Though most of the variations can be started off of 9, this is probably the easiest one to do off of a Guard Cancel. Keep in mind that while you'll start out in one direction, you'll be moving in the opposite direction in the second half.


(This variation can also be useful if you are cornered, as it gets you out of the corner.)

- Not that I should HAVE to explain this; but for completion's sake, know that you can't do this variation off of any other starter than 9.

6. The Elevator: 6 9/7 8 2 8

 ...Because, hell yeah! Like the Stairwell, it's a good muscle memory habit to know that you can do 8 2 8 after landing a diagonal upper (9 or 7). Using 7 instead of 9 switches sides with the opponent.

In conclusion, if I see you do 6 9 9 9 9 I will kick your ass (at Vampire Savior).

Talbain unblockables.

There are a surprisingly high amount of unblockables in Vampire Savior, partially due to Fuzzy Guard, and partially due to downright glitches. Talbain has two. Hooray!

In this post - again, taken from Dustloop - I will explain the way to trigger the unblockables, along with my best explanation of how it works and some practical applications for them.

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Unlike certain unblockables in VS, Talbain's are both a bit gimmicky and I don't use them much. For the sake of understanding, I've bolded where the unblockable attacks occur in the combo.

1. ES Beast Cannon unblockable: When an opponent blocks a BC that's going straight downward (2), the next hit, if done quickly enough (6 or 9) will be unblockable. I don't know exactly why this works, but it's not a crossup, because you can do it midscreen...although it's hard as hell to do. I'm 99.99% sure that you need to do the 2 into 6/9 fast enough for it to count as a block string in order to get this unblockable to work.

(No one is exactly sure why this unblockable works. However, I did take the time to dig up technical guru Xenozip's musings on the subject, with my additional comments in bold:

"...I do know that you can do the unblockable in a manner that the opponent leaves blockstun and can move around, at that point it doesn't matter which direction they push to block. So downleft/downright, left/right, nothing can block it. They will actually walk around instead of raising their guard as if [Talbain] isn't attacking. So, it's possible (probable) that it could be another proximity guard glitch. But rather than it being a distance thing, the game 'loses' Gallon's position/proximity on the playing field, and the opponent simply can not/won't raise their guard." (What  Xenozip is referring to when he says 'proximity guard glitch' is that when a character does an attack from very specific distances, the defender simply won't try to proximity guard the attack. This phenomenon is why Bishamon's ES Hayate is an unblockable attack against most of the cast.)

 "On a side note though, if the [Talbain] player does the last BC too slow the opponent can air block it. That's probably what Takahashi meant, in that if you do it at the right time they can't block on the ground and they don't have enough time to get into the air and block (since there's a jump startup window where you can't airblock)." (Takahashi is an extremely high-level Japanese Talbain player who let us filthy Americans know about this unblockable to begin with. When Takahashi showed me the unblockable, he insisted thatTalbain has to be very close to the ground in order for the unblockable to work. Takahashi's English is not fluent, however; so Xenozip was making an educated guess as to what he was trying to tell me.)


As far as practical applications go:

- If your opponent is just sitting in the corner and blocking, you can do a 6 9 2 6/9 8 ES BC, and the last two hits will connect for marginal damage, and more importantly, a knockdown. Again, this COULD be done midscreen, but it's much harder and you have better things to be doing.

- You can also bait DPs to land the unblockable by doing 6 9 8 2 6/9. The 8 will (hopefully) dodge the DP entirely, and then you can come straight down on them and set up the final hit of the ES BC to be unblockable. If you are playing high level players, this will probably be the only way you see this unblockable come up in play.

- You can also mix it up by doing 6 9 2 and then landing. This allows you do just do a Throw option select, or even block to bait a DP.


2. Dark Force Unblockable: The very first attack that Talbain's Mirage does after starting a Dark Force is not unblockable, per se; however, it doesn't cause an opponent to guard if they are holding back. Thus, if you can find a way to make your very first attack in Dark Force a meaty attack, you can set up a situation where the opponent gets up into a meaty Mirage attack, which they won't be able to block.

While this sounds totally sexy, the reason why this isn't broken is because Talbain's Dark Force randomly picks between two different variations, where one set of Mirages hits faster than the other. Since there's no way to predict which one you're going to get, there are no 100% guaranteed setups for this unblockable (e.g you can't get a knockdown, activate Dark Force, and have a 100% chance of landing any meaty combo you can think of).

 What we do have, however, is a setup which will either get the unblockable or wind up being extremely safe, courtesy of high-level Japanese Talbain player, KENGALLON:

 - Activate Dark Force, P Throw, C.Mk xx Quick Move, C.Mk xx ES BC (3 Hits)

What's happening here, is that we are baiting a tech hit with the P Throw. If it's teched, Talbain can do his C.Mk kara-canceled into Quick move at the earliest possible  moment, which is a 100% setup with one of his DF speeds. If the unblockable connects, we have already done Quick Move, and will have enough time to link a second C.Mk into an ES BC for 3 hits.  

It's important to remember that Dark Force is a defensive maneuver. When you activate the Dark Force, it's not to do the unblockable; it's simply another way for us to get a knockdown and safely escape pressure. In other words, if you P Throw your opponent and they don't tech, deactivate instead of standing around like a jackass. If your C.Mk doesn't turn out to be unblockable, do what you need to do to ensure a save deactivation. If you don't feel confident trying the unblockable setup, run a safer tactic. Enjoy.